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Investigating Matrix to replace google chat, does it really matter what server you're on? Are there any specific benefits to rolling our own? (or is it just a potential vulnerability?) We'll be using it for e2ee. #matrix
edit: ok we will not roll our own. sounds like more hassle than it's worth :D
@CatherineFlick it doesn't really matter, though matrix.org have said they don't want to be a big centralised one so do encourage people elsewhere. Self-hosting one with someone like https://etke.cc/ might be a good place to start.
@CatherineFlick the main gotcha is that account migration isn't great; so if you can, head to somewhere you want to stay. Worth noting that Beeper is a matrix system, and they put a lot of work into the bridges to other networks.
@Floppy good to know! other half wants something he can use in the browser, Element seems to offer that which is why I was wondering whether RYO might be an option - we already run a home server for a bunch of stuff
@CatherineFlick Yep, Element is the best web interface (and client generally) I think. If you want to self host, check out https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy, that's what I'm planning to use.
@CatherineFlick @Floppy You do not want to run your own matrix homeserver. You want to run as little of matrix as possible.
@CatherineFlick @Floppy I would recommend just using Element with the matrix.org server, or perhaps Beeper.
That said if this is just for you/partner e2e chat I would look at something else. It's got more sharp edges than a bag of rusty razors.
@jonty @CatherineFlick it certainly seems complex to self-host. It's a LOT of little parts that all need to work together.
@Floppy @CatherineFlick It is also an absolute resource hog, and by the time you've realised how not-fun running your own homeserver is you're screwed because you can't easily migrate off it.
@jonty @CatherineFlick hm, thanks. I do want to move to my own domain to avoid the problem with the lack of username migration, but maybe I'll look around at the options again.
@jonty @CatherineFlick @Floppy
If you have a friend who is competently running a smallish matrix server you might want to join that.
The main matrix.org server can get seriously laggy when it gets busy or attacked (which isn't as rare as you'd think).
For pure E2E chat you might look at SimpleX - it is a new kid on the block...
@jonty @CatherineFlick I was going to go for a flippant reply based around your track record of doing far too many things, but I'm actually much more interested in why... Do you mean hosting it is bad, or the system itself is bad?
@Floppy @CatherineFlick That is a longer conversation I would prefer to have over a beer 
In this specific circumstance I mean hosting your own homeserver is bad. Almost everyone I know who has done that eventually regretted it - the current stack is not fun to maintain, and I would not want to rely on it for my own personal comms.
There is promising work to fix it but it's not quite baked.
@Floppy @CatherineFlick we use(d) it as a slack-alternative in @MCQN_Ltd
That meant we were using our own domain and so /should/ be able to migrate it to a different host.
We were using the hosting service provided by element.io until they shut down their low-end tier. I've got an export of it, but haven't had chance to spin it up with cooperative.computer yet (though that's zooming up the priority list as I need a not-Google-docs solution, and Nextcloud is included in their offer)
@amcewen @Floppy @CatherineFlick @MCQN_Ltd I ran my own matrix home server, and it's been relatively painless. I use it daily, but just to chat with the research group I'm in, so not high traffic.
I'm using the smallest Debian Linode VPS with Postgres and the synapse apt packages and behind nginx. The occasional apt update/upgrade is all I've needed to do thus far.
I will say I find element/matrix UI confusing a lot of the time, so don't love it, but it's worked fine.
Hi @CatherineFlick, I can't confirm that running your own #Matrix server is such a hassle, particularly if you already have some #selfhosting experience. I run mine as an app in @yunohost and it's literally a two-click setup. Upgrades are one click. My server has been running stable and without issues for several years now.
PS: the nice side effect of #Yunohost is that it also automatically adds an email server + dozens of more optional apps to choose from (like #Nextcloud, #VPN, #Bitwarden...)
@ilumium @CatherineFlick @yunohost that's cool, I once installed with @yunohost but could not connect with a client. Happy to try it again. Any hints?
@ilumium@eupolicy.social
@CatherineFlick@mastodon.me.uk And you should not compare apple with pears, it's without sense
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@ilumium @CatherineFlick @yunohost
Can I ask, as someone also running @matrix / Synapse / Element Web via @yunohost , do you run into many problems with video calls? I'm constantly having issues with calls not connecting, or more often not having sound on one or both sides. I'm not sure though if it has anything to do with the other party I usually call having a super old apple phone while I use Element for Android or Element Web.
@Blort @CatherineFlick No I don't have any issues, no. I haven't tried group calls but the 1:1 calls incl with video usually work very smoothly. Is your conversation partner on matrix.org? I read the reference server often has performance issues.
@ilumium
No, they're all on my server. 
@CatherineFlick
(plz hire me) @CatherineFlick honestly self hosting for non federated use case isnt that bad
@CatherineFlick tbh xmpp is probably a better choice (and i'm kind of a matrix shill)
@CatherineFlick Server choice does matter, even if you don't selfhost, as e2ee requires servers to have functioning federation. Avoid matrix.org for the long term as it has too many performance issues. See https://servers.joinmatrix.org for a homeserver list; however, keep in mind that the full list is just a baseline, some manual vetting is still required.
@CatherineFlick wire.com also does e2ee and a web option, if you aren't set on matrix
@Laura the other half wants a browser based client so I'm a bit stuck
@CatherineFlick ah. i thought app.wire.com would tick that box, but i've not used it personally, just the android and macos clients.
@Laura @CatherineFlick fairly certain wire has closed registration for non business users sometime last year
@haise @CatherineFlick it seemed to still have 1:1 chats free based on https://support.wire.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405932795665-Product#h_01J1PYFSDMBZF1XHDGR93JSRFG but I realise both this and I may be out of date...
@Laura @CatherineFlick well looking on wire.com there's no registration button and only a talk to sales button at the top right