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As the electrification of the Leeds-Manchester rail line is again put under review to see if 'savings can be released', what successive authorities seem to miss is that each time they delay to review (to find costs savings), they're increasing the cost, making the extent of actual savings needed to make their target cost reduction that much harder, until eventually, the delays themselves raise costs so much the project (perhaps by design) becomes uneconomic.
#railways #infrastructure
h/t FT
@ChrisMayLA6 See note below. Maybe instead of electrification with all the complex, rather unsightly (costly to maintain) infrastructure, they could use the review as an opportunity to look at hydrogen fuel cell locomotives? Something like this: https://newatlas.com/transport/flirt-h2-fuel-cell-train-guinness/ NOTE: From the comments I've been getting and after reading up a bit, I think battery-electric trains are a greener alternative to #hydrogen fuel cell trains.
@alexproe @ChrisMayLA6 Hydrogen is greenwashing—it's almost 100% produced by reforming methane (natural gas): electrolysis from water is ferociously expensive. It's also much lower energy density per unit volume than methane, diffuses through metal, as a cryogenic liquid it's murderously hard to handle and embrittles seals and metal, and it's explosive when mixed with air in almost any ratio. Locos powered by hydrogen are leaking fuel-air explosive bombs, and you want them in passenger stations?
@cstross @alexproe @ChrisMayLA6
This. There might, possibly, be a few marginal cases where hydrogen generated on site is a sensible fuel for energy generation (I'm not actually aware of any).
But it is obviously daft and a complete non-starter for things that move (trains, road vehicles etc) or distribution over wide areas (eg for domestic use).
Hydrogen is total hype and the sooner the idea gets knocked on the head the better.
@regordane @alexproe @ChrisMayLA6 Hell, we've had *nuclear powered trains* for 45 years and they make more sense than hydrogen fuel cells! (Spoiler: it's the French TGV network, which is overhead-electrification all the way, driven by the French nuclear reactor fleet—which at peak supplied 90% of France's electricity. Nobody in their right mind would put a reactor IN a train, but leaving them in their containment buildings and using high tension cables is a no-brainer.)
@cstross I used to be dead against nuclear owing to safety fears and highly toxic, forever waste but I think the tech has matured and nuclear may be viable. But I can't help thinking that great big fusion reactor in the sky called the sun is underexploited. Cleaner too, depending on tech used. @regordane @ChrisMayLA6
@cstross @regordane @alexproe @ChrisMayLA6
Good moment to recycle an old meme of mine 
On a more serious note: Liebreich did an excellent deconstruction of the hydrogen miracle myth a few months ago, that I'll just link here: https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=w0Q9cuF8zKg
It's a bit long, but certainly interesting.
@collectifission With Michael Liebreich. Seems he's a bit of a guru in the green energy field. Didn't know anything about him before my reply on hydrogen fuel cell powered trains sparked some lively, interesting conversation. Will watch at some point. Thanks. @cstross @regordane @ChrisMayLA6
@cstross @regordane @alexproe @ChrisMayLA6
I absolutely LOVE riding on the TGV between Paris and Strasbourg. Sustained 315 km/h under the wire, for all intents and purposes, supplied by nuclear power.
@cstross @ChrisMayLA6 @regordane @alexproe
“Nobody in their right mind would put a reactor IN a train”
please, please, please, don't give *them* ideas!
@cstross Don't think I have seen that! Will keep an eye out for it. What I really want is a nuclear powered motorbike! 
@valhalla @ChrisMayLA6 @regordane
@regordane @cstross @alexproe @ChrisMayLA6 Micheal Leibreich has been looking at the energy transition for decades whose works are well worth reading. He has a “hydrogen ladder”, which ranks use case for green H2 from “unavoidable” to “uneconomic”. Ground transportation is at the bottom of the list, essentials like fertiliser at the top, which will be hard enough to meet as it is.
There’s a more recent version somewhere, but I can only find this one at the moment.
https://www.liebreich.com/the-clean-hydrogen-ladder-now-updated-to-v4-1/
@regordane @cstross @alexproe @ChrisMayLA6 Is hydrogen poor for things that move because of low energy density, or some other reason?